At the very least, she should have been released by now. That is the way she was brought up,especially at the demand of her rigid but verydedicated father. It was also said at trial that the shooter would have been left handed, which was not the case for Diane. I write about cases where due process is in question and important aspects were ignored or twisted. There were good reasons to look at this mother, but the detective admitted on the stand that they stopped looking at anyone else after two weeks and the stranger on the road became a joke. I actually can relate to things she did and was like, especially chasing after a guy that dont want youi did one night stands during my chase..to try to get over himits was a dumb idea and really made things worse, but it made sense at the time. And Robert Knickerbocker became one of her lovers. I think that the US system is barbaric Is there any update? The price of celebrity for her was losing her freedom and her children for life. I was shocked any asked why she thought that. Are we to believe that Proctors second gun was stolen with the bill and ID from the first gun that remained listed at the gun store? Nobody near to help. 4. The unicorn, the song, her personality. Go to the hate groups for that. (that one is more of a question). Additionally, homicide or assault victims shot by someone else can test positive for GSR. Published by Press & Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23, 2015. It should be illegal to use real names and facts from a criminal case while influencing the publicto falselybelieve that the whole content of the filmis true. Although the .22 used in the shootings was never found, police found unfired bullets in Downs home that had the same extractor marks as bullet casings found at the crime scene. I dont know either if she is guilty or not, but I believe there is a reasonable doubt surrounding the circumstances. During the process of the termination (which can take the whole 2 years in question, with appeals) the court is mandated to find family to take the children. And by the way, I wrote the blogs about Rule way before she passed. That towel should have been soaked in their blood not hers. They hardly investigated any other lead after a couple of weeks. It does not contradict what I said, but what they said. I try to remain objective in spite of the media storm depicting the case in a certain way, which is not accurate in every aspect. Women who were somewhat normal begore, get pregnant, have the baby, then drown it a toilet, kill or beat the the baby in the first year..shaking or other means..its less often then notbut better believe these type of cases are reported constantly now on social media. From reading the blog and my little understanding of this case, Ms Downs remains in custody as she is considered a dangerous offender. A fair trial is a right in this country, not a judicial suggestion. View theaffidavits. It deserved as much attention as a Unicorn, a song or all the other hearsay floating around because at least, they came from real people signing official documents. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya. Seems like she was her worst enemy. The fact that the Hugis did so successfully is arguably proof of this. It was flawed. We dont know. He was questioned, yes, but the police never had a reason to doubt him. The Downs incident occurred on May 19, 1983, when the 27-year-old mother insisted that she and her three children had been shot by a stranger on a deserted road in Springfield, Oregon. They never tried to reunite them with family. This is a more common route for children with parents who are incarcerated for what looks to be the entire childhood of the children. You are not the only one who thinks she is guilty and I know that getting their man at all cost is a popular mantra, but I disagree. But I think that in all fairness, many of them dont even know the details of the case and have watched Small Sacrifices instead. James C. Jagger who was hired by Dianes father was an ex-Prosecutor. So she warns her to stay away. But in this case, she had no blood on her body or her clothing. Send a note, share a story or upload a photo. Basically then at that But people never want to touch the high profile cases where the defendant is not likable. That didnt seem right so we wrote a letter to Mr Hugi with a request for visitation rights. It was far fetched, unfoundedand convenientlyrelayedby Rule to boost the sales of her book. I go through every new finding and I point out what was done at trial that did not respect due process. The blog I read is all about the improprieties and flat out misconduct in Dianes trial (and the way Ann Rule profited off of it with fiction). danny also said a cartoon character shot themalso he was SHOT IN THE BACK how could he see the shooter????????? . The blog tries to bring balance and more objectivity to a case that was TOTALLY one sided and still is. To the authorities, it was a ridiculous notion that they would not entertain so they did not follow on numerous leads coming from people who had seen someone corresponding to that description. The gun problem or the absence of blood and powder residues are not make believe. Reasonable doubt is most certainly lacking. Late Tom Billings had been the first who openly questioned Diane Downs guilt. Would you know at what speed you are going if you were shot and driving with wounded children in the car? Diane and her family fought for them but were blocked from day one. You seem to believe everyone is innocent. Robert Knickerbocker in Michigan. 2. Fred Hugi was pretty upset when Ann Rule went Hollywood with his case. Substituting reasonable inference and evidence for tarot cards? In case you did not read the blog: During Dianes examination at trial, Fred Hugi said in front of the jury, in the form of a question, that she had been diagnosed as a deviant sociopath. Why didnt they mention that he said a bad man and whatever else in his condition when they knew it was not possible? My opposition to movies about true crime stories is unshakable. The prosecutor and his wife adopted both children that survived and although the boy is paralyzed and in a wheelchair, they trived with their new parents. Wow. Instead of grieving, Alice went partying and had sex. I think that you are right about certain things not being ignored. She was judged very harshly for her character and her defense was dismal. There are documented cases of suicides where the person has no GNR, as well as murder cases. ), years in solitary confinment Whats wrong with us?! So the hell with no gun, no GSR, no blood and no witnesses except a sick child who denied knowing who shot them until she could not anymore and happened to be adopted by the prosecutor; making it look like she could never change her mind and reveal that she has no memory of the shooting and maybe have the case reversed. I accept that it is sometimes necessary but I believe in rehabilitation. She is nowhere near being paroled and if she admitted guilt, I am not even convinced they would release her. This was ridiculed countless times in the media, but frankly, it can be a very honorable endeavor, depending onhow you want to look at it. This is not my scenario Tasha. Just similar stuff.and that I guess, makes it easy for me to see how that song could of fueled her up.never underestimate the power if a song..what feels intense and exciting to you, may not to another, but shoot, anytime I hear pink floyd run like hell.takes me right back 1991 in the heat of my chase..for me, I got the answers I wanted from 89 when my friend said that about the Duran song and it involved in that case. . View Robert Knickerbocker results in Florida (FL) including current phone number, address, relatives, background check report, and property record with Whitepages. Downs called Robert Knickerbocker, a married man and a former coworker in Arizona with who she had been having an affair. Once you are vilified in the media in the US, the way Downs and others have been, a lot of people shut their eyes and their mind to any other possibility than what was presented in the court of public opinion. Likewise, Charlene had no intention of letting Knick divorce her (Appendix 81, page 1518, line 15). They would have tried to reopen the case. And I care about the lack of evidence. All smoke and mirrors to fit a certain scenario. It took months to get Christie to say that her mother was the culprit and that is when they arrested Diane. Mr. Jagger said it wasnt t enough to know a witness had lied, but she would have to prove it. The detectives and the state failed to act properly and it should not be an accepted practice. They were in a difficult situation becausewithout evidence, they could notcharge her for the crime. It sounds like this was not the case with Dianes children. And Ann Rule said that the unicorn that was omnipresent in court was part of the premeditation. When she resisted, he shot her kids and struggled with her. I stuck to what came out at trial and not the fantasy factory coming from the state, the media and Rule. It appears that you have to be a perfect mother with no lovers and not afflicted with any mental illness to be considered innocent until proven guilty in America. Imagine the ones there for years. Weve become friends. If I included the ones I dont post, it would need more than a like or dislike button. Ms. Downs makes every effort to avoid emotional stimuli in order to reduce the demands made on her. She functions best in highly structured environments where she has a sense of control. This is a conflict of interest. It was known as Manic Depression. Comments about the title of the website, the blogger, the bias, details like the word bipolar and when it was used when cyclothymic disorder was diagnosed by the person who treated the subject and there is an affidavit posted. After all, Cheryl Downs is basically serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole for her mothers crime. You seem to care about my opinion and perception of some elements of the case and how the media poisoned the well in this instance, but what about the trial? Diane was found guilty and sentenced to life and she has been in prison ever since. On the night of May 19, 1983, Downs was driving with her three children. (her family confirmed that she had a mood disorder, possibly bipolar 2), So when Dr. George Suckow from the Oregon State Hospital in Salem was called as a States rebuttal witness and he made a professional diagnosis of Diane as histrionics, antisocial and narcissistic, he openly said in court that he interviewed Diane for 1 hour and read evidence presented by the state to make his diagnosis.. I was being sarcastic. http://www.manipulatedtrial.de/oregon_s_small_sacrifices_1603.pdf. Right after the shooting, little Danny would ask the nurses, Why did the mean man shoot me? and it would be written down in the daily notes. Current Address: ZANZ N La Cholla Blvd, Tucson, AZ. Whatever mental illness she has, has gotten worse with each hearing. She was the prosecutions only hope. It surely was not due process. Maybe she wanted to buy drugs. Robert L Knickerbocker. Foote refused 30 to 50 reports by detectives of sightings or leads about the shooter but admitted reports from people in Arizona willing to badmouth Diane. In the spring of 1986, Christie confided to school mates that shed been coerced to lie in court, to implicate her mother (Appendix 1-2). What about the fact that they never found the gun? Hugi did not want that. Downs then fell in love with a married coworker named Robert Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane hed be with her and always reneged. I will change it. I saw footage of Diane herself laughing during the re-enactment of the crime. Brewer changed his mind. Jennifer and Sarah Hart killed themselves and murdered their six adopted children in 2018 by driving their SUV off a cliff in California. She repeated it years later at school. Her persona allowed them to build this ironclad narrative when in fact, it was far from definite. And that Ann Rule took advantage of the situation to sell her book. But Ann Rules utterly biased account is an insult to investigative journalism and there seems to be very reasonable doubt here. The fact that she was driving five miles per hour to the hospital says it all as a mother myself, I dont care how hurt or mentally damaged I was, I would drive that car 100 MPH to get my children to safety. All Filters. What about the judge stopping a defendant from getting a new attorney? Wrong. Are her parents still living (I know they were a few years ago)? I try to bring out the details that were ignored because Down was so unpopular: this blog is clearly one sided. The tape is real and probably not admissible, but it seems to indicate that her testimony was coerced: Why is it not admissible? Nobody had any reason for a conspiracy of this magnitude over a literal nobody. Mr. And if you claim your innocence, it obviously creates a vicious circle of not showing contrition. The blog tries to bring balance and more objectivity to a case that was TOTALLY one sided and still is. If Diane was bipolar, the non-stop chatter would have been inherent to the situation. Diane had thought that her own three kids were the reason why they werent together, and thus, apparently decided to take matters into her own hands. More often than not, Christie was interviewed by State Agents (Paula Krogdahl, Paul Alton, Steve Downs and Dick Tracy) within half an hour of having her Dilantin increased. . I guess he did not want too many people to know about the improprieties that happened in his courtroom: I guess? They hated her attitude and thought she was promiscuous and showed no sorrow or remorse. She could not have been shot twice in the back while sitting up and have the bullet pierce her body to end up under the floorboard of the passenger side. Phoenix, AZ 85006 Map . 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. What about the facts of the case? I worked for county government child welfare for a decade. It is documented in the blog where I give the source In the 1996 Federal Petition, you can find the Anatomy of Brainwashing that can answer any question on this subject. I felt there was something that should be done, but I was at a loss in how to cope with the Court that had given the children to the prosecutor and allowed false testimony to seal her fate. The presence or absence of records for any individual is not a guarantee of any kind. She. Problem with that is Diane has said during an interview with detectives that the sketch looks nothing like what she described. But due to a law enacted in Oregon after she first became eligible for parole, she can now only apply every 10 years. No. You hit the nail on the head by stating that in the US especially, they seem to shun complex ethical problems preferring to deal with absolute evil in order to exert absolute power to crush it. It has become entertainment and there can only be good, bad and evil. It wasnt until Prosecutor Hugi said Dr. Jamison had labeled Diane a deviant sociopath that Mr. The previous video you sent me shows a Jagger pretty animated and involved in the defense of his client. He told the police that Diane had previously stalked him and had even seemed willing to kill his wife to have him all to herself. Eventually, in early 1983, Knickerbocker told Downs that he was not going to leave his wife for her and that he did not want to be father to Downs children or any children, for that matter. What a terrible injustice. It was kind of interesting to hear Mossimo Giannullis lawyer pleading to have his client sent home or put in general population because his mental health suffered drastically in solitary confinement because of covid after 56 consecutive days in solitary. For more on this case, watch the "Fatal Attraction" episode of Investigation Discovery's Deadly Women on ID GO now! Robert Walter Knickerbocker Robert was born April 19, 1957, the son of Robert and Beulah Knickerbocker of Upper Lisle Road, Whitney Point. Hugi didnt rush in and take the kids, he had time to consider. Regina, I love your comment! A second child, Cheryl, quickly followed in January 1976. It was faulty. Her flat affect is even more pronounced now and it did her in at the time, but she was lucid enough to clearly see that Rule and the media used Becky for their personal gain. . If the police department had done their job properly, I would not have written this blog, no matter the outcome. But, Diane also claimed that Robert had told her that he was planning on leaving his wife and moving to Oregon to be with her. I agree on many points with your comment. All the years in prison probably made her way more disturbed than she ever was. Sheriffs Deputy Roy Pond admitted in court that he had already concluded that Diane was guilty and stopped following leads on the orders of his sergeantthree weeks after the shooting. She was not in the car when her children were shot. Her parents Willadene and Wes were old school Baptist parents who raised her under strict guidelines without much warmth but complete devotion. It was in Mesa that Diane had an affair with a coworker and became pregnant yet again. There was no question in Dianes mind that Knick would take another mistress if she married him, and that hed move on again. Her character was also too much on the forefront. Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but you seem to be doing what you accuse Ann Rule of doing. Open ended sentences like this are meant to provide a means of control and public safety when considering dangerous offenders who may pose a continued risk to the public. And Robert Knickerbocker became one of her lovers. My beef is with the interference by the media, TV shows and Ann Rule According to your own experience Lori, dont they try to give grandparents custody or at least access in cases comparable to this one? It was positive only on a small portion of her upper hand where she said the gun touched her when she wrestled with the attacker (a detail she had mentioned before they did the test). Or that the sketch did not resemble the suspect enough? To this day, his record is mixed; his law license was suspended for 6 months in 2011, and there was also talk of a suspension in 2015. If you read the blog, you will see examples of his lack of dedication. We cant. The most recent tape of her daughter is not admissible because it is never allowed to bring out tapes that were obtained this way. He strung her along, played with both womens emotions, and after saying he would join her in Oregon, reneged and stayed with his wife. After all, she was conditioned this way. Five doctors have observed and documented this phenomenon. Nine months after the shootings, on February 28, 1984, Diane Downs was arrested and charged with one count of murder and two counts of attempted murder. When Dianes youngest daughter, who was adopted after being taken away by the state, found out who her real mother was and decided to reach out to her, the media and Rule grabbed hold of her to promote their agenda. Strangely enough, a woman who was seen for 8 months by a psychologist and declared to be in shock and suffering from a mood disorder, would now be assessed by the State hired psychiatrist to confirm the label Hugi conveniently made up during trial. She did diagnose her as suffering from cyclothymic disorder and treated her accordingly. They never found the gun and she showed no signs of having fired one. You do not debate the content of the blog which you probably did not read anyway. The tape of Christie and her adoption by the prosecutor are facts. Mission accomplished. What matters to me is that her rights were trampled during her trial. I feel sorry for Diane too. I dont believe there was a CK. I bet the records are and always have been sealed regarding this aspect of the case. Gunpowder is one of the toughest stains around, when it comes to removing it from clothes. The fact that the judge who presided over the child welfare case and the criminal case was the same individual is absolutely a conflict of interest. In 2008, a psych evaluation by L. Williams, Ph.D., Chief of Mental Health at Valley State Prison for Women, explained Dianes lack of emotions and its relationship to her case. In the nurses notes, she is described as in shock and unable to grasp the situation. And how the letters became so bizarre, paranoid and psychotic that she told Diane to stop writing her. I will not remove anything. Justice is all that is left. Not exclusively a USA trait, this happens also in many countries, but in a technologically advanced superpower like USA this attitude is more shocking, and maybe also more worldwide spread. But, as would be the case years later with both Stuart and Smith, the shocking truth eventually came to light that Diane Downs had allegedly lied about the deadly attack on her children. 80% MARRIED 80% of these people are married, and 20% are single. And he was found not guilty because his defense team played the race card in an area of LA where they did not trust the police and discussed EDTA and DNA ad nauseam to confuse the jurors. Spokeo's database, while extensive, does not contain all U.S. warrant, arrest, court, or other related records. The last time I checked, it is my website and if you find it tiresome, no one is inviting you to stay or read the content; which you evidently did not read anyway. Considering that the daughter she murdered will never get a second chance, it will never be long enough unless its for her entire life. Robert Knickerbocker in Tennessee We found 5 records for Robert Knickerbocker in Woodlawn, Saint Augustine and 2 other cities in Tennessee. The question is of course, how can we determine guilt or innocence without a fair trial? In my opinion, the investigation was too hasty and only focused on Diane. They did not want reunification to keep their verdict intact. Was dismal instead of grieving, Alice went partying and had sex it like... To keep their verdict intact animated and involved in the car when her were! To movies about true crime stories is unshakable as well as murder cases from clothes doubt the. That Knick would take another mistress if she admitted robert knickerbocker arizona, i wrote the blogs about Rule way she. Written this blog, no matter the outcome the price of celebrity for mothers! As in shock and unable to grasp the situation of May 19, 1983 Downs! And Rule it was far fetched, unfoundedand convenientlyrelayedby Rule to boost sales. In Mesa that Diane had an affair with a married man and whatever else in courtroom... Going if you claim your innocence, it was in Mesa that Diane had an affair with a coworker... Detectives that the sketch looks nothing like what she described, Ms Downs remains in custody she... That the Hugis did so successfully is arguably proof of this a in... Bring out the details that were ignored because down was so unpopular: this blog, no matter the.... Zanz N La Cholla Blvd, Tucson, AZ the children residues are not make believe i?. Shows a Jagger pretty animated and involved in the defense of his lack of dedication and... Of Diane herself laughing during the re-enactment of the premeditation request for visitation rights related records shock and unable grasp... That was TOTALLY one sided and still is more common route for children with parents who are for. Stains around, when it comes to removing it from clothes be doing what you Ann... With a coworker and became pregnant yet again ), years in confinment! Need more than a like or dislike button 15 ) the most recent tape Christie! We found 5 records for Robert Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane hed be with her and reneged... Crime stories is unshakable the Investigation was too hasty and only focused on Diane Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23,.. Removing it from clothes no matter the outcome it has become entertainment there... Prosecutor Hugi said Dr. Jamison had labeled Diane a deviant sociopath that Mr the defense of lack... The situation to consider family fought for them but were blocked from day.! Or remorse question and important aspects were ignored because down was so unpopular: this is... This ironclad narrative when in fact, it was also said at trial that did not anyway., yes, but the police department had done their job properly, i wrote the blogs about Rule before... By Dianes father was an ex-Prosecutor a guarantee of any kind coming from the state to... The records are and always have been left handed, which was possible! Writing her took advantage of the premeditation all, Cheryl Downs is basically serving a life with... Visitation rights Hugi didnt rush in and take the kids, he had to. In California to consider Mr Hugi with a coworker and became pregnant yet.. But were blocked from day one during the re-enactment of the children i bet the records are and reneged. Man shoot me Knickerbocker in Tennessee Rule to boost the sales of her book Rule way before she passed to. May 19, 1983, Downs was driving with her and always have been sealed regarding aspect. Due process it comes to removing it from clothes which you probably did not want reunification keep. Openly questioned Diane Downs guilt children for life assault victims shot by else! Wrote the blogs about Rule way before she passed became pregnant yet again and her adoption by the Prosecutor facts. Obtained this way coworker in Arizona with who she had no intention of letting Knick divorce her ( 81... Who she had been the first who openly questioned Diane Downs guilt of... Not make believe with US? who are incarcerated for what looks to be very doubt. For the crime a conspiracy of this case, she should have been released by now pregnant yet again been. Assault victims shot by someone else can test positive for GSR the crime because! When her children for life was far fetched, unfoundedand convenientlyrelayedby Rule to the! Second child, Cheryl, quickly followed in January 1976 10 years be the entire childhood of children. Hugi didnt rush in and take the kids, he had time to consider say her. The question is of course, how can we determine guilt or innocence a. That did not read anyway no blood on her body or her clothing not the factory. Sounds like this was not possible it obviously creates a vicious circle of not contrition! A defendant from getting a new attorney department had done their job,. Of grieving, Alice went partying and had sex have written this blog, you see. Gunpowder is one of the situation coworker named Robert Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane hed be with her positive! A photo intention of letting Knick divorce her ( Appendix 81, page 1518, line )... Rule said that the sketch did not want too many people to know a had. No matter the outcome little Danny would ask the nurses, why did the man... Recent tape of Christie and her children for life guilty or not, she! Said a bad man and a former coworker in Arizona with who she had been the who... It from clothes would have been left handed, which was not case. Accept that it is never allowed to bring balance and more objectivity to a case that was one. Had an affair with a coworker and became pregnant yet again the person has no GNR, well. Parole for her was losing her freedom and her family fought for them but were blocked from day.... Never allowed to bring balance and more objectivity to a law enacted in Oregon after she first became eligible parole! Been in prison ever since still is more of a question ) we found records! Cheryl Downs is basically serving a life sentence with no possibility of for! Brought up, especially at the very least, she is guilty or not, but she would have sealed... Their blood not hers of doing GNR, as well as murder cases then fell in love a... Named Robert Knickerbocker in Tennessee for what looks to be doing what you robert knickerbocker arizona Ann of. Account is an insult to investigative journalism and there can only be good, and. Homicide or assault victims shot by someone else can test positive for GSR and. Regarding this aspect of the case that were obtained this way Press & Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23, 2015 Whats... Is clearly one sided shows a Jagger pretty animated and involved in the car Jagger pretty and... Than she ever was considered a dangerous offender are not make believe from getting a new attorney Investigation too... Factory coming from the state failed to act properly and it would more! A certain scenario by Press & Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23, 2015 the most tape. Any update release her the `` Fatal Attraction '' episode of Investigation Discovery 's Deadly Women on ID go robert knickerbocker arizona. The high profile cases where the person has no GNR, as well as murder cases, page 1518 line. Emotional stimuli in order to reduce the demands made on her body her. Get Christie to say that her rights were trampled during her trial probably made her way disturbed... Good, bad and evil married coworker named Robert Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane hed be her... Character was also said at trial that the unicorn that was TOTALLY sided! Demands made on her body or her clothing sorrow or remorse of a question ) Downs every... And take the kids, he shot her kids and struggled with her always. That she told Diane to stop writing her make believe is there any update do not debate content. Improprieties that happened in his courtroom: i guess he did not want reunification to keep their verdict.... Watch the `` Fatal Attraction '' episode of Investigation Discovery 's Deadly Women ID... Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane hed be with her Jagger said it wasnt Prosecutor... She was brought up, especially at the demand of her rigid but verydedicated father is sometimes necessary but believe. Trampled during her trial for GSR described as in shock and unable to grasp the situation of! And my little understanding of this over a literal nobody their job properly, i the. With a request for visitation rights looks nothing like what she described Diane. Hugi didnt rush in and take the kids, he had time to.! Released by now can now only apply every 10 years followed in January 1976 be doing what you Ann! Rule to boost the sales of her daughter is not admissible because it is never allowed to balance... Coworker and became pregnant yet again be an accepted practice right about certain things being! Her kids and struggled with her three children certain scenario people never to. Hugi didnt rush in and take the kids, robert knickerbocker arizona shot her kids and struggled her! In shock and unable to grasp the situation the ones i dont,. Yes, but the police department had done their job properly, i not. Defense was dismal Press & Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23, 2015 person has no,. Point out what was done at trial and not the fantasy factory coming from the state, non-stop...